ceiling discussion, around the debt ceiling extension, and i share lou's view that, you know, this is really the height of irresponsibility that we're sitting here discussing whether the united states should default or not on its debt which is debt that has been incurred as a result of spending that has been approved by both bodies of congress and signed by the president of the united states, and i mean, there's 535 members of congress. i awe sure you that not a -- i assure you that not a single one of them if confronted with a credit card bill that they didn't like would simply say i'm not going to pay that because they know that the implications for their credit rating, the access to future bank loans would be affected for 10, 15, 20 year, and so it's appalling we're sitting here discussing whether we would do that with, you know, this country that we're all so incredibly proud of so -- >> let me, the last question, try to be a little bit provocative here. folks like allen blinder, very well-republic -- well-respected economist, peter diamond, and blanking the "new york times" econo